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Subject: ATP
 
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ghettobird1User is Offline
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11/19/2011 10:11 PM  
I did a search, but didn't really find what I was looking for. I'm close to meeting the minimum hr requirement for a ATP. What are the advantages of having a helicopter ATP rating? Would it help get a job, say outside of corporate? Is it worth 8-10k of training? What is the check ride like? (IFR is my biggest weakness) Thanks in advanced!
Unemployed GuyUser is Offline

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11/20/2011 1:01 AM  
My instrument instructor took his ATP ride in an R44, he said at one point, the examiner switched off the hydraulics, rolled the throttle to idle, pointed out the window, and said, "land there"!

I hear the ATP is helpfull in finding work in EMS?
Flying PigUser is Offline
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11/20/2011 8:01 PM  
ghettobird,

Your an LE Pilot? Are you already a CFI?
LeewenhookeUser is Offline
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11/20/2011 8:47 PM  
As you probably know, ATP privilages are only required when operating an aircraft carrying 20 or more passengers.

That said, as with all things aviation, the Feds don't have as much to do pilot requirements as the insurance companies. Obviously, with it being a buyer's market, employers would rather hire the guy with the ATP than not.

GENERALLY, you don't really see anyone looking for an ATP rated pilot unless it's an IFR position. In EMS, I don't think it is that big a deal unless you're applying to an IFR position, which you should be because it's worth $2,000-4,000 more per year and you hardly every fly IFR anyway. I got my ATP ratings shortly after I left military service and was able to get hired into an IFR position with lower hours than they normally take and I believe it was because of the ATP.

If you meet experience requirements and feel pretty strong in instruments, I would encourage you to do it. The VFR maneuvers are the same ones as for your commercial and the approaches you do are the same as for your instrument rating. The "ATP Standards" are not anything beyond what you should be doing anyway as an experienced commercial pilot or CFI. As long as you're not an idiot and the examiner does not smell any fear, the oral will be the shortest of any checkride you have taken and you will not see any new material on the flight. The autorotations terminate to a hover.

If your examiner kills the hydraulics and rolls the throttle off, I would suggest rolling the throttle back on, re-engaging the hydraulics (in that order) and discontinuing the checkirde. Then I would report him to the FSDO for creating an unsafe condition in the aircraft in support of a task that 's not in the PTS. A Robby is scary enough when all the systems are working properly.

Military guys:

If you've never flown a Robby and/or never flown single-pilot IFR, don't think you're going to just hop in one and pass an ATP ride. You won't without 10-20 hours of practice and will have to do 10 hours of dual-received anyway to meet the SFAR 73 PIC requirements.

If you meet ATP mins, I would suggest knocking out your written exam (that's the hardest part), getting your GOM/EMS/Corporate job and obtaining your ATP in conjunction with your initial factory training. All the training institutions (Flight Safety, CAE-Simuflite, Eurocopter, Era, etc..) will have an examiner on staff who can administer the ATP ride to you in the simulator. You'll be taking the ATP ride anyway in the form of an SIC/PIC checkride if it's an IFR ship, so you might as well kill two birds with one stone. Same story with instrument proficiency check.

60-driver, Robinson survivor
SPIFR HEMS pilot
Sayer of Nay

"I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce."

-J. Edgar Hoover
ghettobird1User is Offline
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11/20/2011 11:21 PM  
Flying Pig,

I was a LE pilot who lost my unit due to budget cuts. I'm now flying a Ford Crown Victoria and would like to jump ship to keep flying. I have 1000+ hours (most of it in a EC-120), but I'm not a CFI. As you can see, I don't have enough time to be marketable. I know I need to get my CFI and train for a few years, but the pay cut (if I could even find a CFI job) would be difficult for a growing family. I'm just trying to explore my (very few) options.

Thanks Hooke!

I never understood why anyone would get a Rotor-Wing ATP since a CH-47 is probably the only helicopter that could actually carry 20 passenger. Then I lost my wings and realizing how hard the pilot job market is. I'm looking for something to get me over that hump without going back to a R-22 for a few years. It sounds like I either kiss flying good bye or suck it up and pay my dues like everyone else.
LeewenhookeUser is Offline
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11/21/2011 6:47 AM  
I'm told over at PHI, you get a monthly ATP bonus if you're in an position that requires one, which they count as medium or heavy IFR captain. The S-76 holds 12 pax and the S-92 holds 19. Do any GOM guys know why the captain has to have an ATP? Is that for their OpSpecs?

60-driver, Robinson survivor
SPIFR HEMS pilot
Sayer of Nay

"I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce."

-J. Edgar Hoover
jerryfliesUser is Offline

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11/21/2011 11:31 AM  
Posted By ghettobird1 on 11/20/2011 11:21 PM
Flying Pig,

I was a LE pilot who lost my unit due to budget cuts. I'm now flying a Ford Crown Victoria and would like to jump ship to keep flying. I have 1000+ hours (most of it in a EC-120), but I'm not a CFI. As you can see, I don't have enough time to be marketable. I know I need to get my CFI and train for a few years, but the pay cut (if I could even find a CFI job) would be difficult for a growing family. I'm just trying to explore my (very few) options.

Thanks Hooke!

I never understood why anyone would get a Rotor-Wing ATP since a CH-47 is probably the only helicopter that could actually carry 20 passenger. Then I lost my wings and realizing how hard the pilot job market is. I'm looking for something to get me over that hump without going back to a R-22 for a few years. It sounds like I either kiss flying good bye or suck it up and pay my dues like everyone else.

You know, the tour hiring season is coming up soon, with 1000+ hours you may be able to get in up in Alaska, or the Grand Canyon?

As for why any of us would get an ATP, I suspect its the same reason we have to get the Instrument Rating to fly an R22,...insurance break for the operator?
 
carabeUser is Offline
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11/21/2011 12:15 PM  
Yes, by all means get the ATP. I don't know why you say it will cost 8-10K. It shouldn't be anywhere near that amount. It is basically an instrument check ride. The ATP will open up a lot of opportunities and if you want to ever work internationally, it is becoming pretty much a requirement. Just get it now if you have the time. If you really want to get anywhere in this business that pays, you're going to need it. As far as the written, everybody I talk to says use Sheppard Aviation online prep. You will have no problem.
LeewenhookeUser is Offline
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11/22/2011 9:15 PM  
If you're already Robinson current, the ATP process should only burn 3-4 hours of hobbs time. A few practice hours followed by a 1.5 hour checkride. I't's just an instrument ride on top of a commercial ride, but the oral only covers systems. CFI endorsement not required.

60-driver, Robinson survivor
SPIFR HEMS pilot
Sayer of Nay

"I regret to say that we of the FBI are powerless to act in cases of oral-genital intimacy, unless it has in some way obstructed interstate commerce."

-J. Edgar Hoover
AirborneDaveUser is Offline
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11/22/2011 10:40 PM  
If you know who or where you are going to do your ATP, you could always contact the examiner and ask him what will be in the check ride, or a CFI that has done previous ATP's should know.
You can get a copy of the helicopter PTS online.
I got my ATP a couple of months ago. If you would like to know more get in touch.
skipperUser is Offline
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11/23/2011 9:12 PM  
I might just do that AirborneDave, thanks.
air3User is Offline
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01/17/2012 7:42 PM  
ghettobird1, I recently found myself in the same situation. I had a few more hours than you (1200) I also had an ATP rating that I went and got on my own. (Had some fixed-wing flight time) I was recently hired to fly in the Gulf. A few other things to checkout. Flying tours in the Grand Canyon but are weight limited to 200lbs. Fly for Temsco up in Alaska. Alaska does not pay well but if you are able to take a retirement from your Police Job (20 year retirement) these may be an option. Good Luck to you
DynamicallyUnstableUser is Offline
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01/17/2012 11:36 PM  
The thing that stuck out to me the most is you saying that you're weak IFR. Is the estimated cost you're talking about to get the IFR time required for the ATP? If so, then by the time you're eligible for the ATP, you should be a lot stronger. I had to do about 12 hours of IFR to get my ATP and by the end of it, I felt quite confident.


As far as the ATP advantage, if you want an IFR job eventually, it is possible (maybe even likely) that you'll need the ATP. Not for the 20 pax obviously but a lot of companies do require it for IFR Captains.

Advancing yourself and showing the initiative to possible employers is never going to hurt you either!:D
laflyboyUser is Offline
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02/25/2012 2:39 AM  
Who did you go to work for, and what was your total hours. I am trying to get hired, but so far no luck. 2000+ total hrs and 1200+ rotorcraft. Thanks
1HeliCFIUser is Offline
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03/02/2012 10:51 PM  
I am working on getting my ATP, written done, checkride coming soon. I won't need it right away for the jobs I am trying for but I can't hurt to have it done.  If you feel week on IFR, find a heli school that has a Frasca of FlyIt flight training device.  They will be a lot less per hour than an actual helicopter.  I have spent some time in a Frasca and think they are great for IFR practice.  Your instructor can hit pause at any time to discuss what you did right or wrong.  Once you brush up and pinpoint any weak areas, lets say approaches, you can just fly approach after approach by just clicking back out past the IAF.  You can get a ton done on the ground regardless of weather.  Even if you have to travel somewhere and spend a few days I think it would be worth it.  Just get a commitment from the school that the device and an instructor will be available.  My other free advice is to get as much night as you possibly can.  If you ever want to fly HEMS their night requirements seem to keep going up. 
loav8rUser is Offline
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04/10/2012 6:19 AM  
I'll add my 2 cents here regarding an ATP. "If" you restrict your flying career to the U.S. market only, then having an ATP may or may not help; I don't know, I have little experience flying in the U.S. However, if you're going international, you had better have an ATP before applying for a captain's job (many for SIC jobs as well). The customers overseas (and some country regulations) require an ATP. In my opinion, you should go for it because once you get an international job, that money will be paid back quickly.
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